Interview with Prof., author of famous book 'Bloody slough of Karabakh', Yuri Pompeyev.
Q: The Armenian sides continues demonstrating an unconstructive position in the negotiation process on the peace resolution of the Karabakh conflict in the result of which the negotiations are still unable to complete. In 2007 the co-chairs of the Minsk Group offered Madrid principles to the conflict parties and in December 2009 they suggested the updated Madrid principles on the basis of previous documents. It is already 2010 but Yerevan has not yet adopted these principles. How can you explain this?
A: Before answering this question, I would like to express my attitude to the frequently voiced statements that the existing state in the Karabakh issue when Azerbaijani regions remain occupied and this status quo meets the interests of Azerbaijan. This is not true. This situation is working in favor of the aggressor and usurper of these lands. That is, it works in favor of the Armenian side.
Therefore, they reject the Madrid principles both in first and sector edition since these are the only possible and fair humane conditions that can be applied and used in this case. I think this was confirmed at the recent meeting in Toronto between Presidents Obama, Medvedev and Sarkozy. I think Armenia should be forced to peace and observation of these principles. Which methods should be used? Forcing to peace occurs only through the use of a forced method. It is another question about who must do this. I cannot give any recommendations here. But these aggressive side that has occupied Azerbaijani lands MUST be forced to peace.
Q: Armenia is frequently making a stir about Azerbaijan’s applying bellicose rhetoric, while the world community including the Minsk Group co-chairs demand from Azerbaijan to reject the forced way of the conflict settlement forgetting that Azerbaijan is a victim of military aggression.
A: Yes. You know, this is a curious detail. This is a shift of notions when a victim of aggression and aggressor are put on a similar level and the victim of violence is intensively blamed. I think the important and valuable statement is one of the statements of Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev that we will not allow create another Armenian state, implying Nagorno Karabakh, in the territory of Azerbaijan. I think this is the main essence of Azerbaijan’s position both on the world scale and inside the state, since the patience of the people to this situation with the occupied lands cannot last long.
Especially, it would be wrong for the Armenian side to hope that all Azerbaijani refugees and displaced persons will die out. On the contrary, I think they are strengthening their positions. By the way, the opinion that none of the Azerbaijani refugees and displaced persons will return to the lands after their liberation is widely spread including in my native Saint Petersburg.
However, a year ago, I spoke to the refugees from the Jebraiil region here in Baku and I heard a phrase from an elderly person. There was a deep suffering in his eyes and he said ‘we must return there’. He said he must see the moment of return to his native village, his native land, to develop it and make it fruitful like an owner rather than an occupant can make it be. Therefore, all these rumors that no one will return back to the liberated lands are senseless, there are so antipatriotic that are out of the question. To say so means not to be aware of the nature of people.
Q: On the one hand, you state the need to force Armenia to peace, but on the other hand, the problem is that the world community urges Azerbaijan not to apply force and behaves equally with the occupant state. Is it possible to hope in these conditions that the world community will have a fair attitude to this issue? Does it not mean that the conflict will last forever?
A: I think the lands that were occupied by force must be returned by force too. It is necessary to seek the full independence of these lands, their compete annexation to Azerbaijan. I see no other way out since only by doing so it is possible to speak of the dignity of the people. But we should take into account the fact that the state itself must attain the return of those lands which were occupied and usurped by the opposite side.
Azerbaijan has recently reached significant economic success which is especially obvious in conditions of the global economic crisis. It is clear. Azerbaijan is a flourishing state and this is great since the bases laid by Heydar Aliyev are still used. They are very sound and fruitful. I do not know whether the Military Doctrine of Azerbaijan has been adopted…
Q: Yes it has been. On June 8 Milli Medjlis has adopted the Military doctrine of Azerbaijan.
A: I am not acquainted with it yet, but…
Q: The military doctrine fixes Armenian occupation as a main threat, the main challenge to security, territorial integrity and sovereignty of Azerbaijan and the Azerbaijani state preserves the right to liberate occupied lands through war in this document…
A: This right should be used. I think the world community should be explained the need for this step which must be done actively. I watched all speeches of Heydar Aliyev on TV, when he was speaking in London, when he was hanging up a map and explaining. This is how it must be explained in the United Nations. Probably, before this decisive attack to return these lands, it will be necessary to explain everything in the UN Security Council since this decision is very serious. It is connected with a million and now more than a million of people, aboriginal residents of these lands, who were forced to flee them.
Q: What can you say about Yerevan statements saying that in case the Azerbaijani side starts hostilities for the liberation of its land, CSTO will have to interfere with this process? Azerbaijan is not going to intervene to an alien land.
A: Certainly. This is the most painful issue for me since Russia is the organizer and the main participant of this Collective Security Treaty Organization and in this sense I am a suffering party…
Certainly, the security of the Armenian population of Karabakh must be ensured and I think Azerbaijan will be able to do this. It will be able to ensure not only security and existence but also normal conditions of living and coexistence. And it is senseless to speak of any irreconcilable differences of civilizations. Azerbaijan has an opportunity to ensure security of the people who will return there and people who live there now.
Q: When speaking about the Karabakh conflict, most people say that it is frozen. Several weeks ago the Armenian side provoked a military incident on the front line that killed four Armenian and one Azerbaijani soldier. This provocation by the Armenian side occurred on the days when the meeting of the presidents of Russia, Azerbaijan and Armenia met in St.Petersburg. After this incident, Azerbaijan’s FM Mammadyarov said this case shows that Nagorno Karabakh conflict is not frozen, the troops there are opposite each others and hostilities may resume any time. So why do some circles say Karabakh conflict is frozen?
A: Well, the frozen state is favorable for powers that are indifferent to this situation. I think the situation is very painful. Russian writer Konstantin Simonov had a good phrase: ‘there is no alien pain’. For example, for me this is really an alien pain. But I feel as if it is mine. I feel as if my brother was deprived of his land, his property where he was born and grew up and the land where his ancestors lived. That is the position you should take in saying that the conflict can never be called frozen. It is always active, it causes pain in the hearts of thousands and probably, even over millions of people who can hardly go through this deprivation.
In addition, it is the front line. I am watching this and I often see deaths of people on both sides. This is a front line and this is war. In this respect, Azerbaijan remains a victim. It remains a state that was subjected to aggression and therefore, this is a state of war. On the other hand, there is certainly no bloodshed and deprivations since spring 1993 which was attained thanks to Heydar Aliyev. But I think he died in 10 years in grief about the fate of these lands. This was one of the unshed sorrows that suppressed him greatly. One of the reasons of his worsening there in Cleveland was certainly the understanding of the fact that he could not fully complete this war with the victory of Azerbaijan. That is the point.
This matter must be continued by his son, his followers, contemporary Azerbaijani army which has recently marked its 92nd anniversary. It was created during the first people’s republic. The second democratic state of Azerbaijan must settle this problem by means of its armed forces. I am not calling for war but I think this is the only way to force Armenia to peace.
Yuri Pompeyev is professor, doctor of cultural science, member of the Writers Union of Russia, academician of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences, author of famous book 'Bloody slough of Karabakh'.
Aliyah Fridman
News.Az
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