Re: http://armenians-1915.blogspot.com/2011/05/3264-talaat-pashas-report-on-armenian.html
From time it was published, Murat Bardakçı’s book based on the personal notebook of Talat Pasha has become a source of inspirations for some writers who could distort or interpret the contents to suit them. Sabrina Tavernise of New York Times, immediately grabbed the chance in March 2009 in her column. See Posting # 2774 for my counter comments. Ara Sarafian was next to distort Murat Bardakci’s book; I had replied his remarks at that time as per Posting # 2788.
Apparently, Ara Sarafian (whom I took for a more balanced scholar) went back on this topic again and excavated words and figures deeper, producing evidences only by his own words and imaginations from ambiguous notes, that only the writer Talat Pasha could have explained, because they were all penned for his private knowledge and not for sharing or knowledge of other persons.
A Turkish folk saying quotes: “Do not search for the baby calf, under the bull”; meaning that the calf will always go to the mother cow, and not to the bull which gives no milk!
Ara Sarafian is paid by Gomidas for “producing evidences on the genocide allegation” and he simply did his job; but in doing so, he took his readers for ignorant or unable to double check or use logic! It should have been Murat Bardakci’s concern to respond to the echoes of his “Eureka Book”, but to the best of my knowledge he is so busy in his newspaper column and TV programs, that he really does not care or read what goes on in the world outside him and how his discovery is being manipulated by slanderers!
Rather than spending equal amount of pages to explain the discrepancies, distortions or unfounded fantasies concluded and penned by Sarafian as “evidence”, I will limit myself to a few typical examples and leave the judgment to the reader! By now, I think that readers have noticed my thumb rule to let the “existing evidences with references” do the real speaking instead of my personal conclusions.
Is Talat Pasha’s personal note book an accounting of deportations or “disappearances” in Sarafian’s words, or is it a personal note book to check the movements of people from various locations, the amounts allotted from the budget and the expenditures for the execution of this difficult project? Mr. Sarafian makes no reference to the “financial aspect” of the note book and “shuffles around with the numbers” more than counting hairs, but even splitting hairs first and counting them later! He proudly exhibits the few addition mistakes by Talat Pasha by 5 or 10 persons, (when we are speaking of hundreds of thousands) and when numbers could have been “guessed or knowingly erred” by different sources Talat Pasha depended on!.
First of all, “before we make a guess of how many disappeared or died or have been killed” we must have a starting figure, namely the total number of Turkish citizen Armenians living within the borders of the Ottoman Empire, in early 1914 before WW-1 started.
There is quite a long list in my essay Posting # 2610! Additional new sources that surfaced prove that the Armenian Population should be estimated not more than 1.300.000. Why? I take as basis line (l) of the report prepared by joint Armenian-French “land distribution commission” on March 1, 1914 and which was to be implemented if war had not started! The bylaws of the Autonomous Armenia in French “Reglement Organique pour L’Armenie Turquie” (See Posting # 3129-second half) give the number as 1.330.000. Hence, if we take an error margin of 10% in favor of Armenian population, we arrive at the round figure of 1.400.000 Turkish Armenians before WW-1 started within the Ottoman Empire borders.
* Sarafian starts his book, with an excerpt from the Diaries of Ambassador Morgenthau which is entered on Aug.8,1915, quoting the sentence “We know we have made mistakes, but never regret” as evidence of destruction. To me it sounds like a sincere modesty of a state man, who admitted some deficiencies!
Sarafian tries to reach to conclusions from “vague numbers and sources” where our only chance is to make a reasonable guess, allowing for an error margin of say plus or minus 10 or maximum 20%..
* Sarafian goes further with his interpretation and uses the following terms in the following paragraphs:
…he ordered the general deportation of Armenians and oversaw the break-up of communities, the systematic confiscation of property, forced conversions, the disappearance (?) of hundreds of thousands of people and dispersion of the survivors across the empire.
* Talat’s Report on the Destruction of Armenians (This is the title labeled by unbiased Sarafian)
* Although it bore no date, title or formal introduction, the document started with the deportation rate from the Black Sea… (Sarafian goes on with hair split counting and analogies which are not related to the main object of this documentation…to prove that Talat Pasha ordered killings of so many hundreds of thousands and these persons have all of the sudden “disappeared”!)
* Talat was clearly aware of the destruction of Armenians while the deportations were in progress and his report of 1917 was probably an effort… (Sarafian presents no evidence, other than his impression of clear awareness and writes history based on probabilities!)
* According to Talat’s Report over one million Ottoman Armenians disappeared between 1914-1917…while native Armenians were those who were not deported outside their provinces. (There is no such indication anywhere in his report. On Page 77, there is a list of 18 locations with numbers of people who were displaced, adding up to 924.158. There is no clarification when these people were moved, whether they were from the indicated cities or were groups that were being transferred, in which case it meant that they were counted twice. For example some 34.000 were said to be moved from Aleppo, which was at the very south and was a terminus of the railway where new comers were met by band at the rail station (See Posting # 3143 for “welcome band”)
* …the great majority of these deportees were killed off through forced marches, privations and outright massacres… Talat’s report clearly show… was not a population transfer but destruction of entire communities! (Mr. Sarafian provides no evidence whatsoever, that deportees were killed or that there were massacres. In other references we will see that Turkish wounded soldiers as well were forced to march and their privations were even worse. Again dependable sources show that the majority was not killed! Again “entire community destruction” does not hold any essence because the Armenians on the Western coast (where they could not be any threat) or Catholics, or Protestants or families of soldiers or employees in the state service were not touched! Did Hitler make any such categorization when Nazi Armenian Legion soldiers were rounding up Jews?)
* As his 1917 report shows (?) although over a million Armenians were deported, around 60.000 were counted in the resettlement zone… (I will answer this subject at the very end)
* Practically all of these survivors in the provinces were treated as captives and pressured to assimilate as Muslim Turks. (I have read no evidence of pressure to assimilate! On the contrary, later Turks did not exempt converts of religion… When we read Davis, we understand that it was Armenians who accepted the shelter given by their Turkish neighbors or said that they converted their religion! After the Mudros Treaty [30.10.1918] most of them were asked to return but very few went back to Christianity. [I am much embarrassed with this kind of religious discrimination] Regarding “captivity” the photo (# 3143) of the transfer or accommodation camps show that there were no fence, barbed wire or sentinels and every one was free to go out and come back! We know that most camps even had their own priests, infirmary and no sentinels! I would rather call this a “very strange situation to name captivity”, unless it is another usual slander!
* His report was not mean for public disclosure… were it not for Talat’s untimely death in 1921!
(Wow! Did Talat died untimely by a heart attack or accident? Why do you hide that he was murdered in cold blood by Soghomon Tehlerian in Berlin and that the German Kangaroo Court found the victim guilty and the hero criminal innocent? What more evidence do we need that we are not taken as fools by many smart scholars? Decency…where is you?)
* (35) The abuse and murder of Armenians was recorded by foreign observers and Armenian survivors… (Individual incidents cannot be generalized; Armenian survivors were very small children not more than 6-7 years old at time. The “foreign observers” have written the opposite:
See: For original newspaper in Swedish, please enter: http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/swedish-eyewitness.htm or
Posting # 2429 – Pages 58-59: “The Genocide of Truth” ISBN 9789746516249, Istanbul Commerce Univ. 2008
Also see Posting # 3116, US Nat. Arch. 184.021/175 report of Captain Emory Niles and Arthur Sutherland who travelled the area on horse for a month and reported that it was the Armenians who killed Moslems in large numbers with refinements of cruelty and destroyed most of their villages!
* Tacy or Tracy Atkinson? She was probably the wife of Dr. Atkinson, who died of typhus and on whose son’s shirt, Enver Pasha had pinned one of his own medals in appreciation of his father’s service! Details are given in Posting # 3125. May I ask an explanation as regards why there is no mentioning of any killings in the 106th (1916) Annual Report of American Board of Commissioners, and why Tracy Atkinson did not see the medal pinned by Enver Pasha on his son’s shirt?
* Leslie A. Davis, US Commercial Consul – Harpoot: It is very strange that in his book “The Slaughterhouse Province” printed by some Greek Publisher, there is not a line or news about the great revolution and incidents going on in the neighboring cities of Bitlis and Van! Or can it be that the publishers preferred to censor these sections which did not suit their purpose? Let us have some excerpts from subject book and see what the devoted “Commercial Consul” who did not handle even one commercial transaction during all his service, but was much active on religiosity wrote:
p. 95: “All that winter sick and wounded Turkish soldiers came from front to Mamouret-ul-Aziz. Notwithstanding what we know about the way Turks treated the Armenians, it seems incredible that their own soldiers fared little better….As no means of transportation was provided, they were obliged to make this journey of several weeks on foot, begging or stealing something to eat through the villages they passed… Those who did arrive were so often exhausted that nothing could be done for them.”
p.96: “All the business of that region had been carried on by Armenians; all the work of the missionaries had been among Armenians. Now the businessmen were gone and with them the opportunities for trade; the Christian population were gone and the field for religious and educational work almost closed.
p.143 (June 30, 1915): “As stated in some of the above mentioned dispatches, a revolutionary movement on the part of some Armenians was discovered and severe measures were taken to check it…! Little distinction was made between people who were entirely innocent and those who were suspected of being participants of the movement.”
p.146: “The people have been given four or six days to dispose of everything they have and leave. For the merchants to wind up their affairs in that short time was difficult.
p.160:”It is not a race one can admire or among whom I should choose to live. But whatever the faults of the Armenian people may be and however conclusive may be the proof that some of them have been involved in a revolutionary plot, the punishment inflicted upon these people is so severe, the tragedy so terrible…”
p.164: “Even if the Government wanted to give any one a safe journey I don’t think it could do so. The roads are filled with bands of Kurds and “cetes” who have been turned down on travelers and it is a matter of little importance to them whom they rob and kill. I understand that many Turks have been killed while travelling”.
p.168: (Sept. 7, 1915): “I certainly have no desire to pose as a champion of the Armenian race or to defend any Armenian revolutionists.”
p.169: “I should estimate that at least three fourths of the Armenians in the region have now gone. A great many of those who remain have been and are still hiding. A few are now getting the benefit of the order exempting Catholics and Protestants from deportation…”
p.170: “… a number of men who have been concealed in various places have been going to Dersim and taking refuge among the Kurds… there is quite a movement with fixed prices for protection. Many people, mostly women have been kept in Turkish houses, especially in the villages that are partly Turkish and partly Armenian.” (Note: Sarafian calls these humane – neighborly – risky protections “assimilation or forced conversion! Others spoke of harems?
“The kaimakam carried on the business of taking bribes systematically and openly that it became known to everybody. Two or three weeks ago he was removed and was subsequently arrested and imprisoned where he remained ever since.”
p.172: “On the whole, the Americans here have had comparatively little trouble during the past two months and have been able to do some good.” (Note: Distribute relief to Christians etc.)
p. 175: “I have, of course, not seen any actual killing myself, but there can be no doubt about those who have been killed in this Vilayet before arriving here…
p.181: During the last two months quite a number of Armenian soldiers have been brought back in groups of two or three hundred from Erzerum. They arrived in a most pitiable state due to their exposure on the way at this season of the year and the privations they had suffered.”
(Note: We do not know if these were Armenian prisoner soldiers or Turkish soldiers of Armenian ethnicity in the Turkish army! The logical questions are: “- Why these were walked such a long distance and were not killed before arrival? – Did the wounded Turkish soldiers have arrived any better? – A typical and clear self-contradiction!”
p.183: “… one of the saddest commentaries on American missionary work among Armenians is their lack of religious and morale principles and the general baseness of the race. During all that has happened during the past year I have not heard a single act of heroism or of self-sacrifice and the noble acts, if any, have been very few. On the contrary mothers have given their daughters to the lowest and vilest Turks to save their own lives; to change their religion is a matter of little importance to most of the people;… Absolute truthfulness is almost unknown among the members of this race. Money is sought at every price, even at the risk of their lives… From every point of view the race is one that cannot be admired, although it is one to be pitied.”
Now, I would like to comment on remaining two important points on what Sarafian tried to prove with his fantasies and brief references. First let us speak about Morgenthau who had not met the Armenian Protestant Patriarch Zenop Bezjian, until he had returned from Zor on Sept. 26th and reported that they had no incidents, they safely arrived and had settled down for business! Morgenthau when in Istanbul had not visited any of the Christian churches and cathedrals, but when he returned to USA in February 1916, he became more fanatic then Templar Knights. When you do not speak “the whole truth, but give only a portion that suits you”, you become no one but a liar. Now, let us see some of the “diary notes” Sarafian definitely knew (because it was Gomidas’ Publishing), and see what he hid from his readers:
July 26, 1915, Monday: “Patridge says about 25.000 Armenians were expelled from Sivas, each family was given one ox cart and sent toward Mossoul.
Aug.1, Sunday: “I told Talat about the general Armenian question. Enver explained his side of the case. …He listened very attentively and promised to look into it and see that the treatment is moderated. He was not enthusiastic about having the Armenians leave for America as he felt that they would be deprived of a valuable asset but he wanted them scattered and taken to places where they can do no mischief.”
Aug. 8, Sunday: Conversation with Talat quoted by Sarafian in introduction!
Aug. 16, Monday: “I called on the Grand Vizier alone and talked with him about Armenian affairs. He said that the Armenians and Russians had killed and destroyed at least 120.000 Turks in the Van district and that they were determined to punish them for having attacked them while they were at war. “
Sept. 12, Sunday: “They arrested an Armenian parading as Persian. They found on him a mauser and 100 cartridges and when examined he disclosed the names of 14 others in whose possession they also found revolvers. He knew of the plot to kill Talat which had been hatched in Paris.
Sept. 30, Thursday: I talked with Talat about Armenian Protestants and their deportation. He told me he would stop it…. He consented to a number of minor matters. He was in a rather yielding mood.
Oct. 15, Friday: “Wagenheim (German ambassador) still thinks that it was wise and necessary to move Armenians from the boundary lines. (Note: evidence that the relocation order was originally demanded by Germans who were the Commander in Chief…for military necessities.)
Oct. 18, Monday: “I called on Enver and discussed with him at great length the Armenian question and the distribution of relief to them…. They do not want Armenians to think that any foreigners are encouraging them and are their friends. He admits that there are between 400.000 to 500.000 Armenians that have been deported, that families of soldiers are getting 30 piasters per head per month or two but they have to build their own houses.
Oct. 23, Saturday: (Enver) said Talat expects to visit and see the Armenian camps and see how Armenians are treated.
Nov. 12, Friday: (Conversation with Halil Bey, Foreign Affairs Minister) Philip and Schimavonian were with me and we had a long discussion about the Armenian question. He gave me a very clear explanation of his side of the case. He said as early as February he called together the Armenian deputies and told them that the demands which one of them made about the administration of the vilayet Van showed that they were preparing for an action and warned them against their doing so. … but unfortunately Dashnaguists joined the Russians and attacked them, and they had to defend themselves for fear that if they had to withdraw, the Armenians would rise and cut off their retreat. They therefore had to deport all the Armenians and did not have sufficient gendarmes and soldiers free and that all that Enver could spare was one battalion to be devoted to escorting the Armenians. (Note: Why did you hide this talk Mr. Sarafian? You are missing the essence and jumping into scenarios)!
Now let us come to the bull’s eye, and “by Talat Pasha how many Armenians were made disappear”:
Please note diverse sources and guess how many Armenians were displaced, when, how, or died!
A. Turkish Sources have records of some 450.000 displacements by name, but we know that more than that has been displaced later without prompt records.
B. We have a letter dated Feb.8, 1916 signed by U.S. Consul in Aleppo J.B. Jackson presented to Ambassador Morgenthau giving a detailed list of ten main camps with an estimate of 486.000 persons.
C. In another letter dated March 1, 1921 prepared by Acting High Commissioner in Istanbul sent to US State Department we are given a long list adding up to 624.000 persons living in previous Ottoman Empire.
D. Dr. Nansen, General Secretary of the League of Nations, replying the delegate from India said that the State of Erivan Armenian Republic had 1.000.000 inhabitants of whom 400.000 were refugees from Turkey.
E. We have another U.S. Document (NARA 867.4016/816) dated November 1922 giving a detailed list of all Armenians in the whole world totaling to 3.004.000. This document states that 817.873 of this number are refugees from Turkey. When we deduct this number from say maximum 1.4 million Armenians when WW-1 started, we have a figure of 583.000 total losses due to all reasons from 1914 to 1923.
* Following references taken from posting # 2610 for additional clarification:
(a) Garekin Pastirmadjian, a leading warrior and writer of “Why Armenia Should be Free” (Boston 1918) in page 38 of his book (Par.2) speaks of 700.000 Armenians living in the lands left to Armenia plus 1.400.000 in the lands left to Georgia-Azerbaijan and Turkey, totaling to 2.100.000 alive. If this was to be true, it means that there were no deaths, but the population increased by 600.000!
(b) The official Armenian Delegation at the Paris Conference (Par.3) declared under page 7, that 1.400.000 Armenians are alive at that date, Feb. 1919!
(c) Boghos Nubar declared in his letter of 11.12.1918 that only 700.000 emigrated and that 880.000 were alive. Greek PM Venizelos also gave this number to the Paris Conference as 880.000 alive.
(d) George Montgomery an American Official at the Paris Conference gave a detailed tabulation showing 594.000 in Turkey + 450.000 in Caucasus + 60.000 in Persia = 1.104.000 alive in 1919 excluding those who immigrated to other countries.
(e) Armenian historian Akaby Nassibian gives the numbers 750.000 in Greece-Palestine-Syria according to the British Relief Committee, plus 400.000 or rather 500.000 emigrated to Russia
(f) German missionary J. Lepsius arrives at the figure 948.500 or rather 1.108.000 alive in 1921.
(g) At the Paris Conference, the Research Commission headed by Robert Lansing, Wilson’s State Secretary, presented their formal report dated March 29, 1919 in which the total losses were only 200.000 of which only 8.200 died in bilateral butcheries and 54.000 of other reasons in transit.
(h) Hovannes Katchaznuni, wrote that in 1919 there was 1 million Armenians but by 1921, 200.000 had died because of famine and plagues under the Dashnag rule in Armenia (not in Turkey).
(i) Armenian historian A.A. Lalaian wrote that there were 885.000 Armenians alive in 1918 in those areas, but that by 1920, 195.000 of them died of starvation in the young Republic of Armenia.
(j) And the last monumental document is the “Near East Relief Report” to be elaborated in the following paragraph, unanimously resolving that by December 31, 1921 a total of 1.414.000 Armenians were alive, most of them in need of help.
(k) NEAR EAST RELIEF REPORT, # 266 RESOLVED on April 20, 1922 (joint U.S. CONGRESS & SENATE SESSION).
Page 4: It states that 300.000 Armenians returned to Cilicia after British-French occupation, but that they evacuated the region in 1921 after F. Bouillon’s Treaty with Kemalist Turks. It says that 200.000 to 300.000 Armenians were alive in Syria region -in need of help-. (Other sources said 150.000 only!)
Page 5 It states that at the time 1.000.000 are alive in Caucasus Armenia,- 500.000 in need of help!
Page 8: It gives account of 64.000 alive in 124 orphanages + 50.000 in the areas = 114.000 living.
Page 9: It states that 500.000 persons have migrated from Anatolia to Caucasus region. (Other sources had indicated this figure as 400.000). It lists various orphanages in occupied – unoccupied cities of the Ottoman Empire and Kemalists, showing that Turks never hindered their activities! Throughout the report, there is not a word of Turkish atrocities or refusal of cooperation or attacks on relief goods protected by famished soldiers or Turks, and that only Christians received subject Relief!
Conclusion: If you have taken the pain and patience of reading my counter remarks with their references, you should be able to understand the palavers or distortions of many sloppy or cheating scholars. It is because of this reason that in my conference (Posting # 2733) in London and (Posting # 3245) in New York and Washington I have stressed the importance of decency in all relations, including scholarship. I still have to hear some Armenian scholar who would emphasize that 195.000 Armenians died in Armenia under their Dashnakist Republic (May 28, 1918 to Dec.2, 1920), and that Britain and France were largely responsible for starvations because blockade of all ports was part of their war tactics, and also that the deaths of epidemics and starvation after Mudros Treaty (30.10.1918) was again the responsibility of the Occupying Forces. According to General Harbord’s Report, British were still provoking Armenians in 1919 to attack Turks for more! Deaths of Muslims “in the hands of Armenian revolutionaries etc.” are estimated to be 520.000. Prof. Justin Mc Carthy (the most reputed demographer) calculated the total Armenian population as 1.493.276 of which 584.000 died of all causes in all places between 1914 and 1923!
Since I am no scholar (that splits hairs first and count them later), I am making a rough estimate by logic without any ambition. I am simply guessing and you are welcome to make your own guess. My rough calculation basis is as follows:
1.300.000 population x 30 % death rate of all causes under Turkish rules = 390.000
Deaths in 2 yrs in Armenia confirmed by PM Katchaznuni and historian Lalaian + 195.000
Total deaths of Armenians everywhere for all reasons: 585.000
Death rates could have been 40%, if there was no (various) relief supplies to Christians only. Blockades were lifted only for those ships carrying relief supplies, guarded and not shared by Turkish soldiers!
Some readers may wonder why Armenians, Greeks and American Relief speakers used higher figures for Armenians living at that time! This had two reasons; one was to get more relief or financial aid per head and secondly that they were crowded enough to occupy the huge lots of lands they were demanding at that time… And nothing seems changed today with their dreams of large lands (from where they flee) or restitutions to become rich just by crying loud!
As regards “restitutions” I suggest that you refer to Posting # 2644 and use your own judgment. Do not ask me how many Turks in top positions ever read and take note of my books or essays now exceeding 300 and why they do not lay these documents to the knowledge of the public!
As regards “confiscations”(?) no one speaks that there were FOUR times, that native Armenians were given two years grace period to return and re-possess their estates (On June 4, 1918 Batum Treaty, 30.10.1918 Mudros Treaty, Dec.2, 1920 Gumru Treaty and 24 July 1923 Lausanne Treaty). Abandoned properties, taxes of which were unpaid have been confiscated or disposed of by law like in most countries!
Sorry, this proved to be another version of my reply to AGHET. Readers are welcome to refute my references if any is found to be untrue or distorted as I showed with Sarafian’s hypothesis!
Sukru S. Aya
Istanbul, May 29, 2011
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